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Windows Phone 7.8 : Where do you stand ?

Windows Phone 7.8

Windows Phone 7.8


By now we all know that current Windows Phones will be getting 7.8 whilst only new hardware will be getting WP8. By now we have almost certainly all read a ceaseless slew of blogs and posts and articles criticising Microsoft for abandoning its loyal user base, its early adopters. That user base has taken to comments sections in their droves to either side with the many writers taking shots at Microsoft, whilst the camp splits in two and others defend the Redmond-based company.

The question is: is it so bad? The commonest examples provided by supporters of the move are Android and the iPhone 3GS. With the former, buying into that ecosystem with a brand new phone does not even guarantee the latest version of the OS, let alone future upgrades – Sony is shipping its line of new Xperias mostly running Gingerbread, version 2.3 as opposed to 4 (admittedly they are getting updates out as I write this, but the point stands). That puts us Windows Phone users in a better position, with a guaranteed 18 months of updates. As for Apple’s now-archaic (by modern standards) hardware that is the iPhone 3GS, that will be getting iOS 6 it seems. However, that will not be the same iOS 6 running on the iPhone 4S or even the iPhone 5 (or “new iPhone” to follow their iPad naming convention); it will be a stripped down version, applying only what the hardware supports and presumably will make the device even slower. In effect, it is more of a 5.6 than a 6 – but then it did not even have the full 5.0 either. With Windows Phone, we will get the features our phones can support without slowing down our phones – a consistently great experience has preceded any need to just hurriedly bolt on the latest features until now, and should continue to do so.

The point with Apple is that iOS 6 on older hardware is not the same as iOS 6 on its newer counterparts, but by being ambiguous in their naming scheme consumers are happier to let slide that their phone is missing features and has been slowed down by updating. It is almost as if being honest has hurt Microsoft. They have accepted that they cannot deliver the full Apollo update to us on our existing phones, will do the best they can but have also acknowledged that by giving the update a different number. That was their big mistake; I am not convinced that calling it WP8 but also saying it has its limitations would have gone down as badly as 7.8 did.

People point to how first-gen devices cannot and will not be able to download apps that were designed for the new kernel in WP8, but again Apple has set the precedent here. I have a second generation iPod touch; whilst I can access the App Store, very few new apps are downloadable as they were designed for the latest and greatest OS build, which my hardware does not support and Apple cut off that touch from future updates. So phones are more expensive and dearer to people as it is their communications hub, but the principle remains. It was such that even when the OS build my touch is on (2.3 or something) was the latest, downloading certain apps would incur an error along the lines of “this application does not support your device’s hardware” or whatever.
The other point people are making is that we will only be getting a new start screen. We do not know for certain that that is the case, as I understand it. With the exception of the new-look start screen (which I am glad to finally see), the new features announced at the Developer Summit were all generic things (but which are great additions to the platform): NFC, a Wallet, better resolution screens, new mapping service (Nokia) to be used, and so on. None of these are readily copy-able by either of the main competitors at Cupertino or Mountain View, or things they were not trying already; Apple announced a similar feature set at its WWDC. Microsoft have already promised that more features will be improved or added for the launch, with details coming closer to said launch. Why would Microsoft announce these now, three months in advance, just to appease users and let Apple and Google copy and perhaps give them the time to come out with competing products by launch? I fully expect that as more features are detailed for Windows Phone 8, we will be seeing several of them on our first-gen devices once we update to 7.8. I cannot see the start screen on its own bumping up the version number to 7.8. If that were the only update, it may as well be included in Tango – it has already been showcased, no need to keep it hidden, and they could get some great usage statistics and improvement suggestions for the feature to make it an even better experience on Windows Phone 8.

I may be wrong, of course, but I see the outcry as being a bit premature. Microsoft has to keep its planned features under wraps to not give an easy advantage to Apple and Google, who already have considerable market share, and cannot be divulging its secrets to put at ease some worried Lumia 900 users (although a “we’ll be announcing more WP8 features soon, some of which will make their way to WP7.8″ would go a long way to silencing vocal critics).

Right now, the biggest problem is the uncertainty about updates, especially with those who just last week were proud owners of shiny new Lumia 900s. Some have said that if they were happy enough with the device to buy it, they should be happy with it on its current OS build even in six months’ time but it is never nice to be left behind so soon after purchase. I have seen several posts about people threatening to defect back to iOS and Android, but really, to do so before the release of WP8 (around the time of the suspected new iPhone as well) would be rash to say the least, and by then there should be far more concrete information coming from Redmond to allay our fears and reassure us that WP7.8 is not Microsoft deserting us, but trying to give us as much of that Apollo goodness as our old hardware can manage.

For what it is worth, this was all typed on my Windows Phone using the Office Suite. Update or not, it is still a powerful tool.

This is a guest post by Max Nilsson ( from BestWP7Games.com )


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  • http://www.kariosgames.com Marios

    One of the points I made on my blog post (http://www.karios.gr/?p=707) was about bad press. If 7.8 will bring more than the start screen, they should have said so. Instead they specifically said that this is all 7.5 users get. The other problem is that hardware that is the latest on any platform (see: Lumia 900) should be update-able to the next OS version. It’s that simple. The iPod touch 2nd gen and iPhone 3GS are not the latest in their respective lines. And also, for me, it is quite important to release the products if not on the same day of the announcement, no longer than a couple of month afterwards.

  • kevgallacher

    The main issue here is that brand new phones like the Nokia 900 is basically now obsolete. Microsoft have made a huge error with this announcement. Sales of current wp7′s will likely plummet with that developers interest in creating apps for wp7 will also cease. Consumer trust in the platform will also suffer. If we buy wp8 in October will they then release an update 6 months later that is not supported by the hardware. I bought my Nokia 800 in December and now I feel I have to break my 2 year contract or be left behind with an obsolete phone.

    • ubersicko

      How is it obsolete? They are still getting the update just nothing hardware specific, people like you just spread doom and gloom.

      • john

        It won’t have the new kernel, so won’t be able to run new apps…. OBSOLETE!

      • Rick

        There will be two sets of apps… ones that work on new phones, and ones that don’t… and all the maintenance and admin nightmares that go along with it. That’s how.

    • Max

      The 900 isn’t obsolete, it just won’t be the latest and greatest. It will still get an update to improve its features. Each year Apple releases its new phone, makign the last year’s model (which everyone rushed to buy) inferior. There a phone doesn’t last a year.

      Look at the Samsung Galaxy SIII. It was released to huge fanfare reserved generally to Apple keynotes and is still in the process of being released. It is running the latest OS – much like your 900 – but today Google looks set to formally announce Jelly Bean. Fine, so it is probable that Samsung’s flagship phone will at some point be brought onto that build, but just wait for how the update process is drawn out dependent on carrier, region, etc, leaving people on something other than the latest and greatest, even though it would be available.
      Also, is it not likely that as WP8 gets updates (improvements to Maps, the start screen, other features that could be seen on current devices) so too will WP7.8 for what it can support? There was no mention of 7.8 being the end of the line – they guaranteed 18 months of support and the 900 has not been out nearly that long.It is entirely feasible that minor upgrades be brought to both versions, where possible.

      It’s unfortunate timing with regards to how recent the 900 is, but that’s what happens with multiple OEMs building for one platform, but as I said in the post it’s not necessarily a lack of eventual features hurting Microsoft – it’s the uncertainty, and all the rumours, speculation, theorising and fearmongering it brings with it.

      • Eddy

        You’re wrong about something. Yes, Apple releases a new iPhone each year. And of course it has to be superior to the one released the year before. But Apple keeps updating it’s devices for more than two years. You want an example? A 4 year old iPhone 3GS has iMessage. My iPhone 4 has everything a 4S has, except for Siri (which is just a way of Apple trying to sell me a 4S).
        The thing is, I bought my iPhone 4 and I’ll still have updates for at least one more year. People who bought their Lumias a few months ago will have one update in a couple of months and then will probably be forgotten because WP8 will be what is “in” while WP7 will in the same direction where WM6 went.

        • wp7swag

          Who are you to say that they will forget about us?

          • Eddy

            For how long do you actually think WP7 will continue to be supported? Did you forget what happened to WM6.5, when Microsoft announced that it would be discontinued and replaced by WP7, so soon?
            Developers lost interest in WM obviosly because why would you develope an app for a platform that is soon going to dissapear and that won’t be compatible with the new version of the OS that is going to replace said platform? Same thing is happening again.
            Apps drive the smart phone world. If developers don’t make apps for a device then who is going to buy it? So… who is going to buy a Nokia with WP7 now? Knowing that all new apps in a couple of months are going to be incompatible with his/her device?

  • big_Stefano

    This is an awesome post and everything you have said is exactly what I’ve been trying to explain to the doubtful, to the people who only think we’re just getting the start screen. My main examples are of course android. The Samsung Galaxy S2 or even the Galaxy Note all ship with 2.3 gingerbread. Yet with their hgh-end specs they shouldn’t have a problem 4.0 ICS which was released 6 months after the GS2. Until now, I haven’t seen any GS2 running ICS but no one seems to point the finger at them.

    Oh well, haters gonna hate.

    • Eddy

      A lot of people are pointing fingers at them. And a lot of Android users have learned that they can’t rely on their manufacturers for updates.

  • ubersicko

    I’m happy with the update, after after two years my phone is still getting updates, mine is a Omnia 7 and Samsung suck for supporting my phone.

    • Max

      I have an Omnia 7 as well and updates this far down the line are great. I’m happy with it – I was always looking to upgrade to WP8 once that was announced and released anyway.
      The issue is more Lumia 900 users whose phones are all new and now feel cheated, that their new hardware won’t be getting the new OS to match. (I’m sure there are owners of other devices who are also unhappy, but the majority seem to have either the 800 or 900.)

      • wildwill

        I buy a phone not for its future promise but for its current value. I bought my Lumia 900 suspecting it will not see WP8, and I don’t care since it delivers an awesome device and OS experience. ‘Obsolete’ is a perception of want and not a reality of need.

  • ecar7man

    I’ve heard this iPhone 3GS comparison and its crap, for lack of a better word. My iPhone 3GS received most updates now for almost 3 years and say what you will, but I’ve never been unable to download an app because of hardware requirements on that phone, which again I’ll point out just turned 3 years old.

    Apps is what drives an OS, so by leaving 7x users behind, Microsoft just made my shiny new Lumia obsolete…despite the fancy start screen.

    • Me

      I think one of the things that people miss when they compare MS’s “abandonment” of their current user-base to the support that iphone users get is the size and significance of the respective updates. What I mean is that siri and a bunch of really insignificant improvements were all that iphone 4s brought over iphone 4! Why do you think after so many iterations, the ios still looks and behaves similarly to what it did initially? on the contrary, WP8 is a HUGE improvement over WP7… it doesnt mean WP7 will become obsolete. Heck I can happily run my Lumia 800 with the existing ~100k application in the market (maybe more like 90k, but regardless) for as long as I want. But if I want to run the latest and the greatest, then yes I will upgrade my phone and hopefully I’ll get a 41 Mpixel (or something similar) Nokia running WP8.

      P.S. I purchased my Lumia 800 when it became available in Canada and cant be happier with how MS has done things and the future of WP. Haters will always hate.

      • ecar7man

        Most major apps are not available on WP7, and WP8 will take steps towards addressing that. The fact that you won’t be able to, on say my current Lumia, is what makes me say the OS is now obsolete. That’s my point, apps are the key, not a gimmick like Siri, apps.

        Anyways, people will obviously see things differently. I love the OS, so much better than iOS, but my next device will not be a windows phone.

        • Me

          Fair argument, and as a user you have every right to choose your next device/os as you wish. I just dont necessarily agree with “Most major apps are not available on WP7″. I think you can pretty much find most of the useful apps/alternatives on the market.

        • ingil

          Uhmmm wtf? EVERY major app is already on windows phone? Do you really own one?

          • ecar7man

            Oh sure, every major app is on WP7: Instagram, Pandora, Temple Run, A version of Angry birds that’s been updated this year, angry birds space, words with friends (fine, I know that’s coming later this year), Flipboard, Mint, Cut the rope, Draw Something… should I continue to page 2 of the top apps on iTunes? And let me save you a reply, “replacement apps” don’t count, it’s like saying $20 FUBU jeans are the same as $120 Diesel jeans, because they’re both jeans.

            • myLumia710

              out of the 10 apps you named, leave wp7.8… wp7.5 has 6 already, and i know for sure that 2 of the remaining 4 are in the pipeline with the other 2 a probability so that leaves wp7.x users with 8/10 apps…. then theres apps for wp8 still to come

              i have a lumia 710, which is a midrange smartphone and is not as good as the 900 but even i can use those apps on my device, and in my own personal opinion works just as well if not better than an iphone 4s, and i know this because i work in the cellular phones sector

              • ecar7man

                Sorry for the snarky response, but who taught you to count. Of the apps I listed, Cut the rope and Words with friends are the only ones I see available for 7.5.

                And what’s with 8.0 being released and not even a tentative date for 7.8? At least with iOS everyone gets it at the same time, but go ahead and tell me more about how MSFT is standing behind WP7

  • Gary

    I have no issue at all with MS, to the contrary my issue is with the complainers. By definition, technology develops and advances. WP8 is a completely different device and technology, I get that, and that’s what should happen. Nothing about the release of WP8 makes my current HTC Titan, nor anyone’s Lumia, obsolete. It will run just as well in October as it does now. Will it be the latest and greatest at that point? Of course not, but that’s the point. It shouldn’t be. Technology can’t advance if any movement forward has to be backwards compatible. I think you take that as a given when you buy a piece of technology, especially a brand new hardware/ecosystem. I applaud MS for devoting the resources to the development of Windows Phone. I think we all should.

  • Andy S.

    I personally am okay with the update for now just until i get my surface tablet pro then once that is in my possesion i can focus on a true wp8 hopefully from nokia and if not from them then from samsung or htc either way surface is top priority for me atm

  • nlm

    MS should’ve delayed the WP8 announcement until after the summer. At the summit they could’ve got developers the head start they were looking for by focussing on the new kernel generically and porting to Windows 8, which by the way will be the biggest OS on the planet.

    The Lumia = obsolete comments are discounting lag-time for the development of apps solely for the new kernel. Win8 & WP8 won’t be out until 2012q4, with the Pro sometime in 2013. Surface will be the main driver for the new kernel apps but they won’t start appearing until 12 months from now. Until then, your Lumia is not obsolete.

  • ustudio

    Do yall know how long 18 month is, and I believe its 18 month from the date that window phone 8 comes out which is closer to 2 years, and it will still work after that , its not like the phone will stop working, or that 7.8 will be the last upgrade to it there may be a 7.85 or a 9, or a 9.5 etc so certainly its not an obsolete phone by any means. Personally even if my lumia 900 would have been win8 compatible I still was gonna get a new phone as I want dual, or even quad cores and when those kick a__ games come I want a phone that will do it justice, and I bet most of you would do the same , I want nfc I want it all. I do think ms isn’t joking the new wp8′s aren’t gonna be the same as the win7 phone hardware wise. As far as the ios comparison go I phone 3 to 3g, 4 to 4s is just evolution wp7 to wp8 is a change of species. its not minor its major, its not catching up to android or ios its leaping years a head, what ms is doing this year the others, apple and android will be doing years from now. The potential for wp8 is beyond what a mobile os can do were as ios and droid is evolving to that place wp8 has done a quantum leap. My friend trinity has every iphone and every ipad cause he understands my point. picture this the ms windows 8 team and the ms windows phone teams with wp7 was working on two different os’s let say in two different buildings, now the can move into the same building as they are using the same cores , instead of having two separate visions the can have one that is to make the windows 8 experience the most awesome experience on any device, slate, surface, pc, laptop, netbook, phone, etc. That’s my 45 cent worth.

  • Jerry Bandy

    I bought my HTC Arrive the same time my son got the Samsung Epic 4G over a year ago. He has been stuck at Gingerbread for a while now with no hope of anymore updates In site. At least mine will be getting one more update for sure (possibly more). Actually, I would be happy to get my disappearing keyboard fixed. I am very satisfied with my phone.

  • Stagnation

    I’m not bothered in the least by the fact that my 6 month old Focus S won’t be getting WP8. I’ve had Android phones so I’m used to it. What bothers me in the WP7 world is the ridiculous amount of exclusive apps that Nokia gets. If my Focus S dies before WP8 is out I’ll probably go back to IOS or Android for that reason.

    • ingil

      Lol your leaving WP because of Nokia exclusives? Its not the OS’s fault that Nokia makes exclusive apps

  • Ariel

    I just want to say this..

    Why upgrade if your phone works. Latest doesn’t necessarily means better. I have a Samsung Focus 7.5 and I am very happy with it. Sure I would love to see and get updates, but my phone works just fine. I got my music, photos, internet, email, calendar, facebook and much more and they work on my phone perfect. so what else do I really need… A fancy star screen? If I get it ok, if I don’t is ok too. The bottom line here is that we can do away with what we got, but we think for some reason that because Microsoft said WP8 is going to be the S*** we all should have it… The only reason I get rid of a phone is when they brake not because I want a new OS.

  • RATBURL

    I’m on the fence on this one,on the one hand they needed to get the 900 out there and try and get some exposure so if you bought the phone you get a small update.So on the other hand I look in my office desk and I have at least 10 phones in there,my point is you’re going to buy a new phone at least every 12-15 months anyway,just sell or give the old one to you’re friends,kids,parents or try selling it.This crap is changing buy the day and you just have to make those choices.

  • Ola-Mike

    I am eager to see a powerful WP8 either from Nokia or HTC. A phone that can compete with any iOS/Android phone. I am happy with my HTC Radar. 7.8 upgrade isn’t bad. I love Microsoft, I love Windows, I love Google, I love Android. NO to Apple/iOS. [Posted from the 1800PocketPC app]

    • tick tock

      I’m with you and I have HTC Radar also 7.8 start screen will be nice soI can put all my goodies next to each others instead of scrolling .

  • Erik Read

    I bought the Lumia 900 as a test of what MS was doing in the mobile world. I was using an iPhone 4s. I was truly happy with WP7.5. It was different, it seemed fast…I liked it. What irritated me about the WP7.5 world was/is the apps (or lack of anything decent). Take the Facebook about (developed by MS not FB). The first few iterations were total cr@p. With 2.6 it is finally getting better. What worries me is that with the announcement of WP8 the WP developer community is going to take a wait-and-see attitude. What company is going to invest development dollars into a platform that is PROBABLY going to stagnate over the next few months. I say stagnate because when someone like myself researches a phone purchase they will stay away from WP7.5 and wait while the average user will walk into a store and the salesman is going to say…buy this Android phone or iPhone because these shiny Lumina phones won’t be upgradeable. So…while Apple and Android increase market share, WP will not grow and will probably drop (only 2% now). Why would development teams invest? Will your favorite app get 7.x update…who knows? All I know is that so far MS has said only that we will be getting the new start screen. Anything else is simply conjecture and fanboy-ism. In the mean-time I have gone back to my iPhone. There is a problem with WiFi in 7.5 when you have hotspot enabled (not turned on…just enabled). Not sure I will go back to WP any time soon.

  • cyber_k9

    I’m okay with my month-old Lumia (710) not getting WP8… I suspected it wouldn’t.
    What I’m NOT happy with is WP7.8 just having the new start screen, and I’m hoping this is just really, really bad miscommunication on Microsoft’s part… but why would Ben Rudolph on the WP Blog point to a page that basically highlights the Start Screen as “all the new features”? What is there to gain by not announcing updates to also come with 7.8 like IE10, Wallet, etc.? It’s not hiding stuff from Apple or Google, as they know that’s coming now in WP8… so why not just say it’s coming?

    That is what is so frustrating to me. Poor communication, and it does come across as somewhat callous to existing users.

    Now, I still like my phone! I just wish Microsoft had shown more willingness to support WP7 devices with better updates to last people through the life of their contracts.

  • Feras

    Nokia waited so long, they should of waited till wp8. I’m happy with my HD7 for now and when wp8 devices come out I’ll probably get one right away. To make the OS better they have to improve the minimum hardware specs, so stop complaining. :-) [Posted from the 1800PocketPC app]

  • Kiato kid

    The windows phone is great it is TRUE I ma sad that my lumia 800 will not get the new wp8 but at least Microsoft said it truly that we will not the new WP unlike other companies but in mid next year every thing will be fine we will see good phones from Nokia and HTC and we will have the surface + win8 so don’t rush up things just wait for the good things to arive

    Btw I am writing this comment using my WP 7.5 [Posted from the 1800PocketPC app]

  • kirbman

    I had an HD2(Great phone) would work with my work exchange server, but support was lost before contract was up(WP 6.5). Now I have a Nokia 900(another excellent phone)…hope support will remain into in two years, I can upgrade to WP8. I’m certainly patient,but don’t have unlimited resources to upgrade early. Bitlocker for WP 7.8 would make me whole so I can get work email again. Eventually, a succession of disappointments will force me to look for alternatives.

  • Dhuvy

    I’ve had a WP from the beginning (Samsung Focus v1.3). I’m glad we are still getting an update though not the one everyone hoped for. I also believe we will be getting more than just the start screen. I do feel bad for the Lumia owners because unlike me by the time the WP8 is out I can upgrade my contract. I have seen the Lumias in action & they’re great even without the update. [Posted from the 1800PocketPC app]

  • Technologyguy

    I as of about 2-3 days ago got the HTC at&t surround. I love it. Yeah windows 8 Is the next big new thing but our wp7.x phones are still going to be perfect because when we got them they were perfect. Just because our phones have big brothers make them obsolete? I think not. Us wp7.x users are all going to be fine until our 2 years is up. :):) [Posted from the 1800PocketPC app]

  • leesy T

    I think this actually gives us a reason to get a reduced price Windows Phone 7.5 for amazon, lets face it Phones like the HTC Radar are a lovely little phone and the fact that getting it at a bargain price and hopefully it getting a soon upgrade to 7.8 is brilliant!!